Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Clipping in our headspace can often be iffy

11:40 PM

so I just

11:40 PM

fall through him from time to time

Isn't clipping just one of those annoying adjustmests to having a tulpa? Especially in public, looking like I'm avoiding or nudging something that's not there will get me a look. I don't mind Hix moving thru me, I think it's cute. It's better than being knocked over when someone runs into you!

vixiUwU

Like this is such a stupid question that I'm pretty sure the answer is no but like I'm curious what kind of no or no HOW so: So with like, learned negative responses, not like trauma level stuff but just like anxiety and aversions from prior experiences, is it possible to like accidentally/unintentionally dump those on a different headmate, even one that wasn't really fronting/much, at the time? I mean, I'm pretty sure whatever is up here isn't really even a plural related thing anyway but I dunno, just curious I guess, lol

i'm not sure if i understand it correctly, but i will share my thoughts on that. generally i'm not surprised that someone experiences something like that. repressing and bottling up can only take you that far. repressing is a great mechanism for pushing something you can't process here and now to process in the future, but the problems don't go away. i would assume that all that jgc said about tulpas is probably correct because he has a lot of experience in that, but this part: "A big part of Cassidy growing older has been, in fact, realizing how he himself has to deal with the effects of things that happened before he was alive" is actually not applying just for tulpas, but anyone that has a history that causes them to have negative responses to triggers. i'm not sure if jgc shared his views on tulpamancy in general as a side topic, or gave an advice for how to cope with or how to prevent the problems you described. if it's the latter i would disagree that would be the best approach. i'm still on my healing journey myself, but the biggest difference for me was revisiting the past and let it process (when i had time and space for that), multiple times, just letting the brain and body do what it wanted to do at the time that those events happened and i haven't been allowing it for decades. easier said than done! it took me years to be in a mental state to be able to do it, but it improved my life much more than switching - switching is temporary, real changes last. it's scary at first and can be very painful but it's very natural process and your brain knows how to do it when you allow it. in my case, there was multiple defense mechanisms that stopped me from starting the process for a long time. but it made a world of difference for me. having headmates that can take over when other headmate is stressed is very handy and useful, but i think the desirable long term goal would be addressing the problems so that every headmate can live a happy and fulfilling life. (edited)

Yeah, that makes sense. Right now, yeah, we're using bedtime as that processing time mostly. I'm not sure that's an option just right at the moment for Lily, long term yes, but we're probably heading for a separation from spouse and it is probably a good thing, long-term. We should probably have her front some and make sure she's processing though I guess. It's just, felt risky

oh so it's things that are happening right now in life?

Well what I was talking about was a combination but yeah partly meaning current stuff. Just noticing things that happened, I guess

12:53 PM

Don't remember what specifically made me start wondering

if it's a separation from spouse, i wouldn't even consider it a trigger or dig in things in the past as i suggested. it's a big life change and if you cared about the relationship a lot at some point, there is a period of grief coming, no matter your background, and it's all healthy. for me personally, ending 10 year long relationship was very hard and it brought a lot of stuff from the past to the surface which only made it more messy, and after 2 years I am slowly getting over it, it also was an opportunity for me to address the other things but i don't think that has to be part of it. I hope you have close friends around to help you through the tough time.

We do, luckily

It's about to probably get very weird, spouse keeps talking about separating and stuff but then does and says things that seem like they didn't mean it but also seems like they do

‍♀️ but we need to push for it either way I think at this point

it must be quite confusing to get conflicting signals like that, not knowing where things are going and uncertainty can be quite unpleasant (edited)

Lula! | 👻

Rogue tulpa tip: If you don't let your host practice presence imposition, you can sneak up on them.

No, if you're a rouge tulpa you would want your host to practice presence imposition. To lurk around in the back and your host knowing you're lurking around is a good way to mess with them

Rouge tulpas? Like Scarlet?

3:32 PM

:B

Apriori

Delete this tip, please. Disembodied brain-pals are enough of a handful without forbidden techniques like this.

Most tulpas act in good faith and don't actually want to hurt or scare you. If your brain pal isn't very cooperative, then I suspect there could be a mental health condition that could be creating drama where there normally shouldn't be. If it turns out there is a mental health condition at play, I highly recommend setting some ground rules or assessing if it's a good idea for you to do tulpamancy in the first place

Apriori

Embattled host tip: Guerrilla warfare is perfectly valid. Remember, you're on home turf.

Unless it's just a joke, in-system fighting is not a great idea. I think it's one thing if you want to treat intrusive thoughts like enemy NPCs from a videogame, it's another if you're constantly fighting your tulpa. Ultimately, you and your tulpa live in the same brain and hurting your tulpa will indirectly hurt yourself. For example, if you insult your headmate, you will have to watch their backlash and hear their thoughts about how they feel. Even if they go inactive, that can manifest unconsciously or lead to physical symptoms you have to deal with. (edited)

This was a joke I believe, yes.

3:44 PM

Remember kids, don't fight with a tulpa. It's not intelligent to fight oneself.

3:44 PM

Unless it's a kinky thing, in which case you have my endorsement.

10/10 advice

Love Languages are a whole thing, and sass is fine, too.

vixiUwU

She probably does. At this point that's kind of reserved for right before bed but probably not really going about it the most effective way and that seems like probably not the best time other than, it's the one time we don't have stuff that needs doing or need to keep it together or whatever. There's definitely some masking-adjacent kinda aspects to it, probably I guess, but not quite, but more inward than outward

I remember one moment a long time ago where Gray has had to process my feelings because I was so stressed out. I was hiding in the back, it was stressing me out, and Gray just happened to be the one standing there to deal with it. The entire time Gray thought it was weird and he didn't like it, but he did some work to process it. Otherwise, stress can manifest as physical symptoms you have to put up with. Even if it's not my problem, our heartrate may go up even if I'm switched-in. I agree that switching is not a good long-term solution to a problem. Depending on how deep the problem is, it's still there and I think the hedamate who's upset should be the one to resolve it to make it go away compeltely.

Legitimately having a fight with someone in your system is really terrible but I doubt it happens often

I had a fair few with Mika, unfortunately, prior to his whole re-personality-forcing-thing.

3:48 PM

And yes, quite bad.

When our system was more sticky we had some in-system arguing, I know I did get really upset with Gray once. However, as things improved, our in-system disagreements became civil discussions. Even when we were in a worse state, in-system fighting never devolved to petty faction wars or anything like that I think our mental health lead to that outcome, I don't think in-system fighting is normal at all (edited)

Lol factionalism. I'm glad my numbers are small enough and we're just not prone to that.

I had a small fight a small while back, it didn't end well. We all traumatized eachother basically. We're all good now but some of the younger members who weren't there during the fight will dip out if a memory of it surfaces.

Mmm. I don't think bad mental health let to my issues at all, on that point. I think our main problem was just bad expectations. Since Mika was dissipated then brought back there was a perceived and expected wound there. An abiding distrust, even spite.

3:54 PM

But when I went back into it, I was an a very good space, abidingly not only content, but unusually joyful as a rule, and feeling... patient? - And generally enjoying life a great deal.

3:54 PM

It didn't have to be that way, but it made sense that it would be, so it happened.

In an in-system fight, everyone loses. Typically a fight just leads to a standstill, and if it's really bad, it leads to dysfunctional system behavior. We were never at a point where operating as a system was a concern due to in-system fighting. While we do have issues with trust and dysfunction from mental health stuff*, we're playing the guessing game on who did what to break trust and why as a team, not as disputing parties. *critical edit: replaced that with mental health stuff, our trust issues don't come from how we treated each other in the past... well, not mostly. It's comlicated.

It didn't have to be that way, but it made sense that it would be, so it happened

I think any system is capable of having communication breakdowns and trust stuff come up, but my assumption is in general the shared mutual trust doesn't get violated and no argument risks dysfunctional system behavior. (edited)

Zen

Rouge tulpas? Like Scarlet?

Testify.

Im approaching 3 years of brainpal existence animMangoes

1

I'm 4 years old, I feel old now

I'm still ?. I will always be ?. Which I guess makes me immortal!

I'm 4 years old, I feel old now

@A long kiss goodnight - jump I figured you were a bit older honestly thonk

Ben and I are both one, Lucy's turning one in less than a month.

I wonder, what's the oldest tulpa currently on record?

I've heard of tulpamancers in their sixties with tulpas they've had for a long time

3:48 PM

So I'm assuming there are some 30+ year old tulpas

Thats definitely a goal to aspire to. I wonder how my system will be in 30 years

That Noblis or whatever

I was thinking of someone else, but Nobilis is an example too yeah

How old is Noblis/their tulpa? I've never met em (edited)

Met em once, can't remember, sorry

Noblis is from 2012 or something, created by an older tulpa in their system iirc

I don't know if Hots tulp is still active, their tulpa was their imaginary friend from when they were 5 years old. They may predate Nobilis if they're still around

7:44 PM

I haven't kept up with their progress report, Sharky may have changed their name

Hmm, want to know something interesting? Shade as most currently know her is actually very different from the original Shade, who I now refer to out of system as Null. Shade/Null is very alien and eldritch in terms of, well, everything. He isn't human in many senses, and didn't experience emotions like an average person, physical or headmate. Normally a tulpa in such a position would deviate to allow for a human mindset, but not him, madlad instead decided he would take a page from the Elderscrolls lore and literally forge himself a soul/a new tulpa directly connected to him. This is the Shade that is now the most active and talks here. They are paradoxically separate tulpas and directly connected to eachother. I have yet to see another case like it.

While our situation is not exactly the same, our Sub. Rep. was the original me. Like Null, he was very invested in his source material, despite it being limited. While I wouldn't call our Sub. Rep. and myself exact opposites, I think we're pretty different people Our Sub. Rep. was very against the idea of becoming more tulpa-like originally, but over time he slowly warmed up to it (edited)

Yet again my newb ignorance shows, what is a Sub. Rep? I have seen him talk here before, nice guy, but I have no clue what the title means

4:18 AM

@A long kiss goodnight

"Sub. Rep." isn't an official tulpamancy thing, it's what I call my headmate because "Subconscious Representative" is really long. He used to go by "Ranger", but after letting me keep the name he refused any other name and stuck to that title instead.

Holy Shit, managing our subconscious and its potential dangers to the system architecture is Null's self appointed job nowadays. (edited)

I see myself as an advocate of the unconscious mind and the body. However, my goal is to ultimately be one with it.

4:41 AM

Developing a consciousness could be counter productive to that goal, but I have ideas on how to work around it

Fascinating

4:42 AM

Care to share those ideas? I imagine Null may find them interesting

In short, I would create a mask for myself. It may appear to be "another tulpa", personality, what have you, but ultimately it would be another way to express myself without having to reject this personality I currently have and value for better or worse. I am entertaining the idea of reclaiming my old name and seeing this version of myself as the higher functioning identity that cooperates with my other headmates. I'm not sure if I like the idea however.

So basically you want to do a more hands on version of Null's soul forging. It's interesting that there is so many similarities between our systems but also so many minor differences in approach. (edited)

Perhaps it is unsurprising there are many ways to walk the same path and many who choose to walk it. I find it interesting Shade and I have similar paths and goals, but I guess it isn't too surprising either. The unconscious mind is one of the natural wonders of the world.

That it is my friend, that it is

Sub. Rep. | Shadow System

I see myself as an advocate of the unconscious mind and the body. However, my goal is to ultimately be one with it.

What would that mean if you were one with unconscious?

11:16 AM

and how you being an advocate of the unconscious mind and the body manifests?

What would that mean if you were one with unconscious?

@deleted_user_588d55f7aad6 - jump I don't know, I hope to find out.

12:32 PM

I suspect I'll have a perfect connection with the unconscious mind, I may be able to do things I couldn't before. Or not, if I don't want too.

12:33 PM

I believe I'm ill suited for that right now, I believe my consciousness may need to be separated out before I can achieve this

There's no way to have a thoughtform or identity that's also the unconscious directly. They can inform one another, but abstract thought and the unconscious are literally two separate things and you can't just magically become the unconscious. No one can. (edited)

12:40 PM

If it's based on awareness and abstraction the very literal definition of that is antithetical to unconscious.

12:41 PM

This is why even though I have a thoughtform much akin to you, neither of us buy in to that anymore. It requires willfully ignoring how the brain works in favour of Jungian nonsense.

12:45 PM

It makes me wonder whether the reason you all seem to so heavily reject the notion of actually using unconscious thought to change yourself, is because you think you can't because it's supposed to be only your particular thing.

My headmates agree my goals are likely unreasonable, they have suggested it's likely metaphysical thinking. Even if I don't achieve this goal, I'm curious what I can achieve with it.

It makes me wonder whether the reason you all seem to so heavily reject the notion of actually using unconscious thought to change yourself, is because you think you can't because it's supposed to be only your particular thing.

As in using hypnosis or something else? If it's truly unconscious, the only way you can change unconscious thoughts are to consciously perform an action to influence your unconscious thoughts. For example, you can choose to think of pink elephants every time you enter your car. With time and practice, I suspect thoughts about pink elephants will occur without your control.

Yes it would be autosuggestion. Let me put it this way. If you were to unconscious-ify yourself successfully, what would very literally happen is you'd be dissipated and the rest of your buddies would be presuming you were thinking. What would happen then, is if it stuck particularly well they might be able to access certain other effects and they'd be able to go "ooooo, Sub Rep is probably watching over us..." but in reality, it would just be because they were expecting something, not because you were actually behind the scenes somewhere. I'l reiterate again, it's called the unconscious, not the subconscious, anymore. Because it isn't conscious at all. It doesn't reason. It doesn't feel. It doesn't make judgements. It's merely low-level input-output brain stuff, and the input can be abstract thought from other identities.

1:01 PM

In short, it would be a very roundabout way of achieving a hypnotic effect.

1:01 PM

At the cost of you.

1:02 PM

When it's equally possible to just effect the unconscious without that.

1:02 PM

Since it would actually be them doing the suggestion, not you.

1:02 PM

You would just be a stepping stone, or perhaps the hurdle of suspension of disbelief. (edited)

There is no reason to fear my dissipation. I can only be dissipated if I choose to be, and knowing my headmates, they will likely preserve this conscious piece of me one way or another. I'm not sure how hypnosis is different from believing specific expectations in this context, but if that's the end result I think that's fine. Identity in of itself is expectation based, and expectations can always change.

That's fine, then. I would merely have it so you did the thing with full foreknowledge of what you were actually doing. If dissipation into the unconscious is your desire, pursue it by all means. Also it's not any different. I've tried to say as much forever, but hypnosis and suggestion are core and unconscious learning mechanisms in the brain.

1:11 PM

All hypnosis is, is expectation, at its most basic and rudimentary. (edited)

1:12 PM

Hypnosis as a practice is just a kind of esoteric way of finangling the system. It isn't the only way the brain uses suggestion, because as mentioned, it uses it regularly throughout thought.

1:13 PM

And it's not the only method either, given that magic is best described as hypnosis-parallel.

1:13 PM

As is tantric meditation and such. (I just realized not many people realize what that word means, and probably think I'm just being lewd. Tantric means chakra-manipulation! I swear!) (edited)

In short, hypnotic ability is how easily you can embrace a different mindset, correct?

Mmm. Maybe. It depends on what you mean by mindset. Part of that word makes me think of a flavour of abstract thinking. The goal in hypnosis is to not stand in the way of your own unconscious doing what you expect.

1:16 PM

Because it's always trying.

1:16 PM

And identities and mindsets are usually the barrier from it doing so.

All mindsets are expectations and have unconscious implications. They may not all be "convenient", but they do affect the mind. That's why strange ideas about switching can manifest. Consider this- my system had a "9 hour rule" for switching, so any headmate who was switched-in for at least 9 hours was guaranteed to wake up the next morning. This was how Ranger and Gray switched until they realized the "9 hour" rule was completely unnecessary and could instead determine who wakes up in the morning based on who they want to be switched-in. Thus, our systems's switching adjusted to match the mindset.

Then yes. I would agree with your definition there. Being able to change expectations readily is hypnotic ability.

1:24 PM

Measured likely in terms of time and strength vs ease of accepting things that may be in contradiction with things you already expect.

I believe my system is very prone to hypnosis then. It is unfortunately normal for our system to make a sudden big decision based on new information. For example, it only took a few hours for Ranger to change their outward identity from male to female, despite the fact less than 24 hours prior she would have insisted she was male and possibly trans. Gray did jump into tulpamancy alarming quickly, and some of our in-system decisions can also occur alarmingly quickly. I suspect some of the stubbornness you see from our system could be our coping method for not embracing a mindset we don't wish to accept.

Suggestion* would technically be more accurate. But yes I do agree in some respects. You are notable for being one of the accidental 'mancers as well, unless I misremember? That inherently implies a degree of suggestibility.

Our system is accidental, to whatever extent. Gray intentionally made most of us, I'm likely the byproduct of Gray enjoying one of his story characters and wanting them to be real. Gray simply didn't know or later understand he was doing tulpamancy. Ranger and Exabier are truly accidental in the sense Gray had no prior intention whatsoever to create them.

the only use of connecting to the unconscious i can see would be to understand where some of the impulses, behaviours and negative thoughts are rooted in, so you can work on it when you bring up into the conscious. But i believe you can do that without having a symbolism for a representative. In my opinion that insight and skill would be much more efficient if it was trained and available to everyone in the system so everyone can benefit from it, not limited to one headmate that is a symbol of a bridge for everyone else (edited)

We do have that skill, some of my headmates are better at that than others. I expect becoming one with the unconscious mind is a fun 'experiment' I can play with, not a coping tool for my system. (edited)

I see, so it’s more for experimenting’s sake rather than it being a tool

Indeed.

so proud of myself guys.... did so much fronting today, even w axen! dude we never front w axen, actually i think today was the first proper length of time we've ever spent like that.